17 comments

me thinks's picture
me thinks
722 pencils

Respect!

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

The copy is dribble.

Fresh look, but I still think they can be more streamlined. There's something about them that isn't clicking.
Too many things going on possibly.

act's picture
act
535 pencils

If either of you are familiar with the great Helmut Krone's work, you'll know that this campaign is a direct rip-off from his work for the Polariod in 1980. Yes 1980- a time when computer graphics are not even born. So this is what Zapping is about? Easy, zap and copy.

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

Well there you have it then. A direct-rip off of Krone's stuff?

This deserves an even harsher comment than my previous. This fails immediately for unoriginality.

Ney Frances's picture
Ney Frances
660 pencils

so nor even the look is fresh! minus 3 for Zapping, and please, the one who deserves respect is Helmut

is there life before death?

Joseph Campbell's picture
Joseph Campbell
230 pencils

If any of you are familiar with advertising, you'll know that Krone was neither the first, nor the last person to delineate an object in a field of type. It is a technique, not an idea. Saying this is a rip-off of Krone's Polaroid work is like saying David Mamet is a rip-off of William Shakespeare, because he tells a linear story in iambic pentameter utilizing the english language.

What if people had stopped after Edison invented the light bulb because "it's been done". We'd be stuck today with a low-wattage, inefficient bulb that could quite possibly burn our house down. What if no one decided to improve on Ford's Model T because "the whole four wheels with internal combustion engine thing has been done to death"?

That being said, these ads really don't have much of an idea. And Mercedes and Manolo need to visit the Berlitz School. Or use something more than free online translation.

We'll reconvene at 10.

------

I've decided I hate signatures.

Ney Frances's picture
Ney Frances
660 pencils

thank´s for the explanation! but i never memorise names so next time you use one of this beautiful references show the ad, or try to explain it! And thanks again, for the history of ads class!

is there life before death?

ellehcimeo's picture
ellehcimeo
3522 pencils

Ney- Joseph isn't just referencing other ads. he's referencing history. Edison- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edison
Ford Model T - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_T_Ford
and he's making an excellent point. bravo! bellisima!

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

While I agree with the sentiment behind your comment, I don't think that applies directly to this situation.

Yes, shakespeare and mamet are both writers using the enlgish language. But how they use it, and what they write are completely different. Subject matter, tone, approach, ideals. When it comes to a visual medium, writers may not be the best analogy.

If monet had copied a da vinci, people would be in uproar. Da Vinci's techniques were specific to himself. Sure, you can emulate his techniques, learn from the finer points of it and attempt to create your own. But to "copy" it is a whole other beast.

Now, I don't know how close these are to Krone's. I personally haven't seen them and am taking the opinions of others who have as a basis for commentary. They may be completely different. All the AD may have done is deliniate the image. If so, big woop, and this conversation is all for naught. But if they are a "rip-off" as stated, apart from the territory of an homage, then that's completely unacceptable. Improving on a graphic style is completely different than copying the exact same layout.

In this business, the "its been done" area is a no fly zone. Unless you can do what's "been done" a hell of alot better. Somehow I doubt these guys are redefining the groundwork of graphic design and creating a new visual medium.

To avoid more confusion, it'd be nice if someone could find said work so that we can all take a look and compare. For now, we'll be left to wonder.

Joseph Campbell's picture
Joseph Campbell
230 pencils

Ok. Good points. Here's a thumbnail of one of the Krone ads.

http://www.enchorial.com/HelmutKronePictures/212_213.jpg

Can't recall what the type says, but the visual is similar. But, like I said, it is just a technique, and one that has been used over and over again to varying degrees of success. (I wish I could remember the newspaper ads that were all type and depicted a picture of an infamous dictator)

All I'm saying is that it's fine to copy and improve upon a technique (which these ads, in my opinion, attempt but fail to do), but not an idea. And I have found that far too many critiques on this site blasting ads for copying an idea are actually talking about the technique, and not the idea. Just because an ad features a picture of a toad on a tree, doesn't mean it is copying every other toad-on-a-tree ad. Maybe in this case, the toad is a hermaphrodite. Or he's smoking a joint. Point is, (and I am sorry to be so soap-boxy about this, but I used to teach ad students, and this one topic came up every quater.) the moment we stop exploring because we think something has been done before, we shut off a potentially rich lode of new thinking. In my experience, the ones who say "been done" and "next!" are the ones who are afraid to push themselves into the realm of insanely great work.

On the shoulders of giants, we can see for miles.

We'll reconvene at 10.

------

I've decided I hate signatures.

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

Seeing the original ads do clear things up now. Clearly, all the fuss was for nothing. These took a cue from Krone and failed. End of story.

I completely agree with your other comments. "its been done" is a cop out which lends to mediocrity. But i do think it can also be cautionary. If one doesn't heed this warning, you're liable to end up regurgitating an idea much worse (i.e. this stuff) Like I said, only attempt to do something that's "been done" if you think you can do it much better. If not, prepare for failure and a good scolding. "Do or do not......"

All in all, I think the way to approach past work is to examine it, dissect it, learn from it, then create your own. I think we're all in agreement here that these particular ads failed in that task unfortunately. Put the books down boys and try your own. "Annuals are not manuals."

Joseph Campbell's picture
Joseph Campbell
230 pencils

So be it.

Related: my favorite quote regarding creativity, courtesy of Samuel Beckett.

Ever tried.
Ever failed.
No matter.
Try again.
Fail again.
Fail better.

We'll reconvene at 10.

------

I've decided I hate signatures.

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

Well said.

mrtalented's picture
mrtalented
2175 pencils

this one is the weakest. the copy is forced, not legible and typologo is not in the right place like trhe other two. maybe typolgo doesn't need to be buried in text. now it seems like 3 elements not well blended.

Davosk's picture
Davosk
4833 pencils

I just think ad people are the biggest wankers on earth! Done or not, it's just not selling a hotel.
Famous ad people are only famous in the ad industry.
If you wanted to be real artists, you tossers wouldn't be working in advertising.

Nthngmn's picture
Nthngmn
626 pencils

We are real artists.

The only problem is we like getting paid too well. Sell out away!

ellehcimeo's picture
ellehcimeo
3522 pencils

Davosk-
i see nothing wrong with wanking, nor with tossing.
i will wait to see if you can define what art is and who an artist is. your smugness wreaks.

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