3 pencils The Miami Ad School vs. SCAD
emilyw88 (3 pencils | Wed, 2009-05-27 12:44I am currently an advertising design student and the Savannah College of Art and Design.. and I am very interested in the Art Direction program at the Miami Ad School.
An undergrad degree is not necessary to be admitted into the school so I was thinking about stopping at SCAD and enrolling at MAS.
If i do this, I would not receive a degree..
I would think that employers would see that I was a graduate of MAS on my resume and that would be enough..
Any thoughts??
Comments
Stay in school as long as you can if you want to work as an employee. If you want to do your own gig eventually, get out of school as fast as you can.
I know this is an old post but i just came across and i have to ask:
Ivan, why do you say that? Once you 're out of school how does that benefit you doing your own thing? I really want to know and i know you 're the one to ask
thanks
"I don't live in Greece, Greece lives in me..."
Why do I say that? I don't have any hidden agenda. This is what I think is the best career solution.
If you want get your own thing the best thing is to start as early as possible and just keep trying and failing. No school will give you the amount of experience you will gain by actually doing your own gig.
On the other hand formal education is very valuable if you want to work within an established system. If you have such education it will speed up your career tremendously.
Yeah, sorry Ivan, but I also find that a bit of a generalized/odd comment.
Everyone is different. What works for one person may not work for another.
You need to study whatever fits your interests and feels right ... 'right' meaning good and challenging and honest.
You need to see which school fits your personality and way of working/thinking the best?
At the end of the day, if you really want to make it as an Art Director you will, regardless of where you studied.
Just make sure you actually finish something.
This is not just about having a piece of paper ... it's about actually following a course through to the end so that you get the most out of it ... a portfolio or internship or great connections or whatever.
It's no secret that some MAS grads end up at the top of the industry, some totally disappear.
That's the way it mostly goes with any set of grads from any school.
But to suggest you should always leave unfinished studies to become an instant, self-made success is weird.
It's a known fact that one of the most common routes for agency 'start-ups' is for the participants to all have worked in some kind of company or agency before ... then they realize all the things they would/could do better or differently ... and off they go!
Of course, you can also just start a business from scratch with no connections, education or experience and be a huge success.
Can work too I suppose ... for a few.
Anyway, maybe this post is too late to help you ... but research MAS and see if it fits what you want/like/need better than SCAD.
Then make a choice and get busy!
Good luck!
Everyone is indeed different. When we give advice we can only generalize.
I don't agree you have to finish what you started every time. In fact that inertia is a big mistake. If you realize that you've taken the wrong path or not the most efficient path you have to be courageous and turn away from it. Most people are unable to do that, because they feel they will lose all that effort they already put into starting something. In fact that's just an illusion. Again, this is only true in general terms. There are occasions where going through with something regardless the fact that we feel it's inappropriate may be a good idea on long term.
Just to start off with two statements:
Everybody has to begin at school to gain the basic know-how and understanding of design/advertisement/etc.
Everybody has to leave school in order to work.
So we're debating the best time to leave school. I agree with Ivan though, if you have plans to set up your own company, it's best to gain work experiance as soon as possible. When this 'first possible moment' occurs differs for everybody. It depends on many things, like how much and how fast you learned things at school and the confidence you have to work for real clients, but above all, the alternatives aka job offers. If you're going to be stuck in a press company where you can design wedding- and birthday cards I'd vouch to continue school. Specially now with these financial times it might be worth it to study until the crisis is over and more job offers open up. Spend your time as efficient as possible.
Worth to add, leaving school doesn't mean you stop learning. You learn from working at a company but it's always a possibility to take courses, tutorials, etc in your spare time. If you really want to set up your own company, better start getting used to be working late.
Lastly, I also agree with Ivan you don't have to finish what you started all time. To give an example, I left some early design school because I felt I learnt everything I wanted to learn and what they could learn me.
Hey Ivan
Just for clarity ... I didn't say "you have to finish what you started every time"
I said "Just make sure you actually finish something"
Often the reward of a study or internship accumulates over time ... you won't get much out of a few weeks or even months, but if you work at it and challenge yourself ... over time you will see how it all comes together at some point to give you maximum benefit.
Of course, if you are really not enjoying yourself and it feels completely wrong ... no-brainer, get out!
The trick is figuring out if it is you or the course that is the problem.
For young people it's often hard to tell.
But that aside, I was actually commenting on your very first statement:
"Stay in school as long as you can if you want to work as an employee".
"If you want to do your own gig eventually, get out of school as fast as you can"
Here you are implying that education gives you an 'employee' mentality, whereas a lack of education fosters an entrepreneurial spirit.
I think that education or lack thereof has nothing to do with your desire to work for someone or have someone work for you.
This is a personal ideology.
Many of the great 'splinter' agencies' or 'hotshops' around today came from established 'employed' forces that then did their own thing.
Many of these people did study and then work for years before doing their own gigs.
So, I just wanted to offer another point of view.
I believe discussion is good!
I agree with you. I didn't mean to imply what you've read into it that education gives you an employee mentality. I explained it in more detail a few comments above. I think education helps you advance in a big agency faster.
My suggestion for an ideal career is this:
1. Finish school.
2. Work for at least 3-4 agencies. At least a year each.
3. Do your own gig.
Ivan, I'm guessing what you meant to say in your first post was that to do your own gig get out of the advertising agency you work for as fast as you can, and not get out from school (since you need to finish school to get a job anyways, in most cases). I need you to clarify something for me, when you say finish school do you mean earn a degree or go to a school that may not offer a degree for the sake of learning (for example Miami Ad's portfolio program)? If the second, how does someone expect to get hired if he doesn't hold a degree since most jobs out there do require it.
I've heard all my life how a degree is not really needed and that CDs will look at your portfolio before they hire you, yet, most if not all job offerings i have seen do require a degree.. I'm lost.
My personal dilemma is this: I don't have money for school right now so i had to quit school this semester to work full time (and plan to continue in January). When i do go back i will probably take out a 20k loan or more (the school i go to is one of the cheapest, and also offers accredited degrees). The problem is, this one semester that i did go to school i don't feel like i learn anything and my money's worth ($600/unit). I started reading books on advertising and i can say that i learned more overnight by reading one book than what i learned all semester at school. Should i continue with school or learn on my own (advertising is not rocket science anyways). Is it a good idea to spend 20k-30k to get my degree and will having a degree pay off someday? Could i get a job relevant to the field (meaning not at an ad agency) without a degree?
I will very much appreciate your help, this has been bothering me for a long time.
"I don't live in Greece, Greece lives in me..."
Maybe I can or can't help you, but I hope more so the former, even if I may not have the advertising experience and knowledge that many here do. From your last post, you are torn between attending school and receiving a diploma even though you are in a financial bind or simply self-teaching yourself about the Advertising field and building a portfolio on your own. I believe that somewhere, you must fuse together a good book and knowledge.
I have seen people in my field of study pay 40,000+ – whether it be through loan, scholarship, or their parent's pockets – only to end up taking a different route: Some have become amateur photographers, another an actress, and one became a stripper. Please note that this does happen in all professional fields though. However, from my observation in a class of about 30 students, maybe half (or less) possesses what it takes to exceed averageness.
I believe that showing an employer that you have a Bachelors in the field they ask can only do so much for you. Not every graduate will leave school with a great portfolio. May they land a job? Sure, there has to be a small firm somewhere in their city that has simple basics needs they can fulfill and an annual salary similar to that of a potato peeler. This goes without mentioning the monotonous tasks you will handle and the limited creativity you will be able to exercise.
As Ivan or someone has said, everyone has different personalities. Some people can succeed being self-taught, while others improve their skills through schooling. You may have to evaluate yourself in order to decide on your next step. Some here might argue that MAS does nothing more than pump students into the work field, because they paid for their position/title.
Regardless of what school you choose to go to though, I feel that the exercises/projects, interaction with professors, possibilities of interning at big agencies, and seeing who your future competition is may benefit you. I am currently starting to focus on trying to get a book together before the next Portfolio Night. I will admit though that it has been tough for me. I do not know whether it's burnout from work or the fact that Ivan hasn't posted an ad brief exercise in a few months (joking). Maybe I could benefit by paying for classes in advertising or else I may just dig myself out of this hole in a matter of time.
In conclusion, I feel as though unless you have a book that really stands out, those who went to Miami Ad School or have a Bachelors Degree in some related field will be atop you in the resume pile. If someone is fortunate enough to give you the time, get feedback on your work and see where you truly stand. If you do decide to go back to school, continue your reading and working on the side. By learning what's fed to you in class, you are on a similar scale to that of your classmates.
I cannot speak for Ivan. Therefore I will leave it to him to elaborate more on his answer to your first question. I wish you all the best!
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